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jsmn_kink ([personal profile] jsmn_kink) wrote in [community profile] jsmn_kinkmeme2015-06-05 08:16 pm
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☆ Discussion Post

Feel free to talk about anything, Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell-related or otherwise! Authors looking for a beta, and betas looking for authors, are more than welcome to advertise here.

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☆ Previous Rounds: Round One

Episode 4 Discussion (no book spoilers pls!)

(Anonymous) 2015-06-07 10:01 pm (UTC)(link)
Comment here for ep4 discussion!

Re: Episode 4 Discussion (no book spoilers pls!)

(Anonymous) 2015-06-07 10:02 pm (UTC)(link)
spoiler carpet

Re: Episode 4 Discussion (no book spoilers pls!)

(Anonymous) 2015-06-07 10:18 pm (UTC)(link)
-I liked the mirroring at the beginning between Childermass being laid out on the operation table vs. Lady Pole being restrained on the bed
-Childermass/Norrell interaction omg omg how can Norrell be pissed at Childermass for taking a bullet for him, I'm thinking he cares very much for him and lashing out at him now he's recovered is the only way he can work through the panic of nearly loosing him *ships it*
-Strange going through the mirror was obviously fantastic, I have to say though I found his and Bell's arguments throughout the episode kind of grating and tedious just because I can't stand it when female characters have to perform that role in the narrative of being like "stop doing awesome adventurous stuff!!" Kind of like that trope Emma Thompson talks about. I wish the plot gave Bell more stuff to do other than wait to inevitably get kidnapped by the gentleman...
-The 2 officers awkwardly present during the domestic dispute tho that killed me
-End conversation between Norrell and Strange was heartbreaking, it's incredible how badly Norrell can behave and yet you still feel his reasoning and his loneliness. and also weirdly heartbreaking this episode was Drawlight, that little flourish he did when he was explaining his debts was so so sad.

Re: Episode 4 Discussion (no book spoilers pls!)

(Anonymous) 2015-06-07 10:19 pm (UTC)(link)
spoiler carpet doesn't work?

Re: Episode 4 Discussion (no book spoilers pls!)

(Anonymous) 2015-06-07 10:26 pm (UTC)(link)
I liked this review:

It’s not quite so straightforward. Strange’s position, one that responds to evidence (the Raven King’s magic clearly works; there is another realm behind England’s mirrors) is the more properly scientific one. Strange adapts his beliefs according to observable experience, the mark of a scientist. Norrell, on the other hand, takes the inflexible position of steadfast and blinkered faith. He has decided upon a position and refuses to bend from it no matter what the evidence says.

tumblr recs?

(Anonymous) 2015-06-07 10:29 pm (UTC)(link)
anyone got any tumblr recommendations? I'm trying to find fanart for the show especially.

(Anonymous) 2015-06-07 10:40 pm (UTC)(link)
When does this premier in the US?

(Anonymous) 2015-06-07 11:21 pm (UTC)(link)
June 13th on BBC America


Ep1 is here

(Anonymous) 2015-06-07 11:51 pm (UTC)(link)
(only available in the US)


Re: Episode 4 Discussion (no book spoilers pls!)

(Anonymous) 2015-06-08 03:47 pm (UTC)(link)
what's the Emma Thompson said about it?

Re: Episode 4 Discussion (no book spoilers pls!)

(Anonymous) 2015-06-08 03:47 pm (UTC)(link)

Re: Ep1 is here

(Anonymous) 2015-06-08 03:49 pm (UTC)(link)
For UK, all episodes are available on BBC iPlayer. They're up for 30 days from air date.


New Book Readers?

(Anonymous) 2015-06-08 03:50 pm (UTC)(link)
Anybody started on the book since being introduced to it via the show? I'm trying to get my hands on a copy. Might be cool to have some book discussion here.

Gentleman WtTH question...

(Anonymous) 2015-06-08 03:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Maybe book readers could answer this. Why is the gentleman with the thistledown hair able to just start appearing in the human world after Norrell summons him back? Basically before Norrell talked to him the second time, was he unable to travel between the worlds? And was he completely unable to come to the human world before Norell called him the first time?

I'm just wondering, if GWtTH was able to travel to human realm whenever he liked wouldn't he have been getting up to more mischief bc so far he's been pretty tame. Well other than kidnapping a couple of people.

Re: Gentleman WtTH question...

(Anonymous) 2015-06-08 06:09 pm (UTC)(link)
As I understand it, the Gentleman could always come and go to the human realms as he wanted. He just... didn't want to, possibly for the same reason as English (and, presumably, human in general) magic had been functionally gone. Something like everyone is far too dull and ugly to bother with now. When Norrell summoned him, he gained a renewed interest and started to meddle again.

I don't know for sure, of course, but that's how I read it.

Re: Episode 4 Discussion (no book spoilers pls!)

(Anonymous) 2015-06-08 07:35 pm (UTC)(link)
I think the arguments between Arabella and Strange are supposed to draw attention to the fact that Strange is getting caught up in his own ego and isn't exercising any caution, he's just doing stuff because it's fun and without regard for how it worries Arabella. I think it's less that Arabella is there to stop him from having fun but more that it's a comment on the fact that the kind of fun he wants to have is an unattractive reckless side of his character.

imo we are supposed to feel ambivalent about how Strange's character is developing. Arabella is supposed to be the moral compass of the story. I can see where you're coming from that the way they've presented her flattens her character though and gives her the job of reining Strange in instead of giving her development herself. I wish there'd been more in the friendship between Arabella and Lady Pole but that might still be to come.

Re: Gentleman WtTH question...

(Anonymous) 2015-06-08 09:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Part of the renewed interest (as stated above) is his fascination with Stephen, I believe? Which starts as a result of his loitering around Lady Pole. From then on his travels to and from our world are pretty much exclusively driven by Let's-Make-Stephen-The-King machinations or a direct result of being summoned (poor Arabella). Basically it takes actual sustained motivation (which fae appear to lack) for him to be bothered to leave faerie in the first place. Obsession appears to be a prime motivator.

Re: Gentleman WtTH question...

(Anonymous) 2015-06-13 02:26 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah he's sooooo much more obsessed with Stephen in the book. He does weird surreal things too like manipulates circumstances so Stephen finds random objects like a crown while going for a walk.

Re: New Book Readers?

(Anonymous) 2015-06-13 02:28 am (UTC)(link)
I read it before but I love seeing people's reactions to things as they go along so if you're just reading the book I'd love to see your predictions and discussions, idk it's interesting. It's been a while so I forgot a lot of stuff. Thinking about re-reading the book myself now.

Re: New Book Readers?

(Anonymous) 2015-06-20 04:34 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm about 40% of the way through the book now, at the point where Strange and Norrell talk after Strange has published his review (and all caught up on the show so far...). I'm absolutely loving it, but I genuinely can't predict anything so far... I saw some comment on the meme about the pillars of darkness, so I know that's a thing, but I honestly can't gues what they actually might be or what will happen in the book. I'm loving seeing the similarities and differences between the show and book though- the differences definitely get greater as the two stories go on, but both are amazing in their own ways, and all the changes the show makes so far have made sense given the different abilities of the book vs to media,

Re: Gentleman WtTH question...

(Anonymous) 2015-07-16 03:40 am (UTC)(link)
Not to mention show up quite often in various places Stephen is to "express his affection for him." Poor Stephen...

A Queastion on Grant

(Anonymous) 2015-07-17 07:15 am (UTC)(link)
So it seems that Grant is very popular on the meme, paired with just about everyone (including Childermass.) I've only seen one episode of the show and I'm on page 448 of the book, and Grant didn't really make much of an impression on me at all. Is he more important on the show? Or particularly handsome? Or is it just that he made more of an impression on others than me?

Re: A Question on Grant

(Anonymous) 2015-07-17 07:15 am (UTC)(link)

Oops, Question.

Re: A Queastion on Grant

(Anonymous) 2015-07-19 08:08 am (UTC)(link)
In the TV show (SPOILER ALERT! and this comment is only going to comment on TV!Grant, although I have read the book), Grant’s interactions with Strange fall well within the range of activities that would normally lead to slashy activity in any fandom. He isn’t overly demonstrative, and maintains his English stiff upper lip in an appropriate way, but I don't think you have to be English to pick up the nuances of his behaviour:
  • Initially suspicious of Strange, he is won over by him (the classic romantic cliché);
  • After Jeremy's death, he treats Strange rather gently: he tries to reassure him, and even goes as far as giving his arm a pat (still a big deal for the average Englishman);
  • He is the one who comes looking for Strange when he has been closeted with the Neapolitan soldiers for three days, and tries to help him; when Wellington provokes him, he removes the gun from Strange’s hand very carefully, aware that Strange is right on the edge of losing his shit;
  • He continues to hang out with Strange in civilian life (viz. the billiards scene in episode 4 sees him drunk and chummy; he describes Strange to another character as "my friend here");
  • He visits Strange in jail: he offers practical help, advice, tries to reason with him. He obviously cares about him;
  • (In the deleted scene) he takes part in the exhumation of Arabella's “corpse”, in order to help him, which was not only illegal, but would have been pretty unpleasant, as he had known her when she was alive;
  • He is demonstrably the closest thing Strange has to a friend in Arabella's absence (whether at war or after her death).
  • Unlike Sir Walter Pole, who also has a friendly relationship with Strange, Grant doesn't have any additional baggage, so he can interact Strange without any ulterior motives.

    I hope this helps inform the reasons why he has become such a popular partner for Strange. Add in the idea of situational homosexuality (i.e. during the war), and the fact that they obviously come from a similar social background, and are both attractive, compassionate, intelligent men in their thirties under the command of the charismatic Wellington, and it's easy to see the appeal of the Grant/Strange thread.
  • Re: A Queastion on Grant

    (Anonymous) 2015-07-19 08:20 am (UTC)(link)
    Regarding the other characters in the TV show (yes, it's me again!), as Strange's non-magical foil, Grant makes a good match for other magical characters to play against (e.g. Childermass, Segundus). Some prompters have suggested he could be paired with Arabella, which would also work, as they would both miss Jonathan terribly at the end of the book.

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