☆ Discussion Post

[jsmn_kink]

Feel free to talk about anything, Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell-related or otherwise! Authors looking for a beta, and betas looking for authors, are more than welcome to advertise here.

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Comments

some language/attitude issue

[(Anonymous)]

I am a bit knocked out by recurrent using of words “filthy” and “dirty” on the meme.
I understand it’s just an idiom and I’m far from telling any anon what they should or should not say.
But it really strikes me as a little, I don’t know, outdated? And really out of place in the kinkmeme? We came here to celebrate all kinds of sexuality and desire, didn’t we? Things amazing anon authors are writing here are incredibly hot and beautiful, there’s nothing dirty or filthy about it.

Re: some language/attitude issue

[(Anonymous)]

I think, in this context, the words "dirty" and "filthy" are meant as high praise indeed..! I don't get any sense that the erotica here is considered shameful in any way, there's a general sense of glee and enjoyment.

If I've called something "filthy" or "dirty" - and I have - then I've bloody loved it...

Re: some language/attitude issue

[(Anonymous)]

(same anon as above)

...otoh, I've called stuff "hot" and "beautiful" *as well*. I've probably used all four descriptors when commenting on multipart fic.

I don't know if you can infer terribly much from posters' use of these words, tbh.

Re: some language/attitude issue

[(Anonymous)]

It’s a bit like calling woman a whore and then telling it was meant as a compliment, don't you think?

Re: some language/attitude issue

[(Anonymous)]

Um, what? What??? No. You're way, way off mark there. There is no equivalent whatsoever between what is meant as *positive* feedback on erotic fiction and likening an *individual's* behaviour/preferences to that of a sex worker (complete with a strongly implied moral judgement on sex workers).



If you are a writer of erotic fiction who is unhappy that your work might be praised as being "filthy" - and it *is* a term of praise in this context - then maybe you need to take it up with your readers. Otherwise, I can't help but feel you are being really rather judgmental about how a large number of posters are choosing to express their sincere enjoyment of some excellent fic.


If your point is that we should all be more open about our enjoyment of Napoleonic-era buggery fic, then fine, bully for you, go for it - but I'd rather my co-workers/my mother/the world at large didn't know about my addiction, tbh.

Re: some language/attitude issue

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry, I still don’t get the logic. These words have no second meanings. You like something, but you call it disgusting, basically.

Re: some language/attitude issue

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not the anon you responded to, but I just wanted to say that on the contrary, both words have multiple nuanced meanings, which you can google. Type in the phrase "define dirty" to see what I mean: as well as the definitions "unclean" and "concerned with sex", it can also mean "very (as an emphasiser)", "rough" and "dull" and more.

Words often have more than one contradictory meaning, particularly in English. For example, the word "fast" can mean both "moving at speed", as in "the fox runs fast" or else "immoveable, not moving at all" as in "the wheels were stuck fast." It can also mean to abstain from eating.

I have to ask, are you ESL? If so, that might explain why you are confused. In the case of the words used on the meme, nobody is using them in the "normal" sense that they are used, ie pertaining to dirt. They are instead used in the same way that the word "naughty" can mean either "mischievous" or "sexy". It's just the way the English language works and doesn't reflect on anyone's opinions on the quality or morality of the prompts or fills being posted.

Re: some language/attitude issue

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you for explanation.
I assure you I understand nobody here means “dirty” literally, but the fact that people generally use the very same word for sex and for something unclean looks rather degrading, imo.

Re: some language/attitude issue

[(Anonymous)]

The good thing is, native speakers don't feel that way, and the other meanings probably don't even occur to them when they are using it to mean "porny". :)

Re: some language/attitude issue

[(Anonymous)]

I think people just like using a variety of funny words on occasion. I think you're taking it too literally - there is definitely no negativity intended. Fandom has moved beyond that kind of shamefulness, and if anything, old-fashioned words like that are used knowingly and with enjoyment.

Re: some language/attitude issue

[(Anonymous)]

I agree there's no negativity intended, this meme is a very happy place indeed. But seeing as words we use in a way determine our surroundings/reality, I was curious about it.
Thanks for the answer.