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Re: Non-Con Strange: what's going on here?

[(Anonymous)]

(privilege!OP)

There's probably a "fandom punchbag" (lol) Venn diagram to be drawn, then we could see more easily what these characters have in common.

Re: Non-Con Strange: what's going on here?

[(Anonymous)]

This sounds like a very good idea... The main issue I can anticipate is designing an objective enough method of deciding whether or not a character does or doesn't have a particular quality (privilege being a very good example- when it comes to Strange he's about as textbook privileged as you can get without being literal nobility, but a lot of other characters- in any fandom- are less clear cut)... A general consensus seems to be the best way to do it, at least for now.
... I may be getting far too into this.

Re: Non-Con Strange: what's going on here?

[(Anonymous)]

*strokes chin*

We would of course need to precisely define our categories. Maybe allocation could be made by readers both inside and outside a particular fandom?

("Fandom Punchbags: a multi-fandom thematic analysis")

Re: Non-Con Strange: what's going on here?

[(Anonymous)]

I like how you think, and where this is heading. ^_^

my only reservation is that while any such analysis would necessarily have to be multi-fandom in order to collect enough data points to be truly robust, but I'm not sure if it'd be possible to have people from outside a fandom decide on the characteristics/qualities of characters as they wouldn't have the necessary experience with the characters in order to make such decisions.

Perhaps a compromise measure would be to have all people who were submitting decisions on certain characters to give a rating, maybe out of ten, of how much they liked that character in general, and to get a roughly even mix of people who do and don't like the character deciding their qualities. This wouldn't be a perfect solution, of course (many people can like a character despite being all too aware of their flaws, and it is also possible to dislike a character for the "wrong" reasons) but it would help increase the level of objectivity, at least in theory.

Re: Non-Con Strange: what's going on here?

[(Anonymous)]

Maybe "privilege" is a many headed beast, and the boxes that Strange ticks are all boxes that come under the heading "privilege". He's a tall, slim(ish), white, young(ish), rich, charming, attractive(ish), intelligent (well, intelligent enough to be a scholar of magic), happily-partnered, magically powerful, unusual (almost unique at the start) man: any one of these would be reason enough to make him alluring as target, if that was what makes people want to see him brought down.

But for myself, when I read these stories, I have a dual response: I am drawn into what it must feel like to do these things to him, and also what it must be like for him to experience them. And then when the rescue comes, i swap my attacker mentality for a tender mentality, and before you know it, I'm in a soft and cosy dreamworld.

Is this oversharing? I hope not. Does anyone else switch sympathies like me?

Re: Non-Con Strange: what's going on here?

[(Anonymous)]

(me again): I forgot to say that I wasn't aware of being jealous of Strange for any of these things; I tick some of them myself, as everyone does.

Re: Non-Con Strange: what's going on here?

[(Anonymous)]

(Initial responder to privilege!anon and also enthusiastic approacher of ven diagram experiment later)... I completely agree that pretty much everyone (obviously I can't speak for absolutely everyone) isn't enjoying this kind of fic because they feel in any way envious or spiteful towards the character in question... I feel like often it's characters with power, not necessarily privilege (the two can go hand in hand but not always, particularly not in fiction) who get the brunt of this kind of treatment... Whether it's magical/supernatural power, authority of some kind or just superior intelligence/charisma to everyone else, those kinds of characters do seem to be highly targeted for this kind of treatment. I'm still not sure what all this means, it's an evolving question in my mind and has been for quite sometime, but I'm also almost certain that it's not because of jealousy/envy of the character, but something far more subtle than that.

Re: Non-Con Strange: what's going on here?

[(Anonymous)]

(privilege!anon)

Agree, I don't think that enjoying this type of fic has much - if anything - to do with spite and envy. As another poster mentioned, it's possible to engage with multiple perspectives, even throughout the course of a single fic - abuser/abused, rescuer/rescued. This makes me think that these stories have some kind of fundamental appeal that somebody who knows more about narrative theory than I do would be able to identify/explain.

Re. the Venn Diagrams Experiment - actually, we're getting ahead of ourselves somewhat! - we need to first decide on the essential criteria for a "punchbag" story...

Anyway, I'm tired and rambling (nothing new there though).

Re: Non-Con Strange: what's going on here?

[(Anonymous)]

Oh yes, that's definitely true, I can't believe I forgot that. Obviously it's not just about inflicting physical or sexual pain, but also psychological (with or without the physical/sexual element)... I don't know whether the definition of a punchbag fic should include the type of character typically featured in such fic, that seems like it could end up being horribly circular if we're trying to establish what kinds if characters get such treatment.
H/c seems to be a very common feature of such fics, but certainly not a required one...

Another common thread I've noticed is that the hurt element is typically inflicted by an outside force, such as an OC or a group of OCs (like the French soldiers in the fic that sparked all this debate) or a character who is a notable canon villain, rarely by a character who is thought to be a friend or ally (unless the fic is shamelessly and wilfully OOC). This could be because one of the key draws of such fics is the simplicity of their morality- punchbag fics typically have a clear moral divide between the hero/victim and the villain(s), as well as any potential rescuer/comfort giver. Whether this is a necessary and fundamental aspect of all punchbag fics I'm not sure yet but it seems very common to me.